You're Right - It's Not Against The Law

[quote="Finallyfree"]you have to rise above it as difficult as it may be[/quote] I know mate, and almost six years into my situation, trust me, am past-master at it...I just get very down when it's all people can say there is to do.
Thebitch is spot on with narcissim.

Yes, some people are just convinced the world revolves around them and there is nothing anyone can say to convince them otherwise. Classic, textbook narcissism.

There is no use arguing or fighting with them, because they will lie, cheat and steal to win, even when they no they have been busted in lies or are fighting a total losing battle they'll make stuff up to justify their actions...it is a true mental disorder...all you can do is fly under the radar until that person finds a new focus for their rage.

Whats funny is that those people crave attention and power and they almost never achieve it because they are such a-holes nobody can stand to work with them or be around them.

So it's an ironic life at best.

In our situation the police were very helpful...at least when they couldn't do anything they explain WHY they couldn't...it's the difference between being a jackass and breaking the law...until they break a law it's tough...it's a serious uphill battle until somebody get assaulted, threatened or the like with witnesses.

It is sad that the bully gets protected, but, until they have a charge against them of some sort, they are simply another citizen like you or I and have their right to an opinion and their right to be heard.

The "sense of entitlement" mentioned above is unbelievable at times...even beyond harassment...anyone watch the political conventions in the US this year? Protesters felt so entitled, that they were somehow justified in throwing feces and urine on people, even police officers.

What makes some people believe they are so much better than everybody else at times is just...

I don't know...I got nothing...it's just unspeakable.

Like I've said before, I believe Karma usually does it's thing...it just takes too long sometimes.

Petrova, you have to rise above it as difficult as it may be.  We just keep telling ourselves that if we retaliated we'd lose our credibility in court. Something our crazies had already done. 

We just had to stay focused on that because every time we went before the judge we could honestly say that we had not provoked any of the situations that occurred.  Having our day in court, well both days, was the ultimate revenge.  Hearing the judge issue his ruling and seeing how red faced and angry the crazies were was the ultimate justice.  :-*

Unfortunately for all of us, this is a LONG process. I'm hoping to close the chapter on this book very soon!

I am always amazed at how the law protects the rights of the bully and won't step into "protect" the victim.  Our struggle over the last 5 years has been...how much can a reasonable person withstand before retaliating?  Our judge got that message loud and clear.  If only the police would get more involved.  I guess they have to see bodily injury before they can act. 

Our most recent restraining order is up soon and we are dreading the return to court.  Having to sit that close is just gut wrenching.  Our last court visit lasted 4 hours.  I think our side (2 families) spoke collectively for about 10 minutes and the rest was the crazies rambling on about how everyone else is to blame.

I don't know if I am able to post a link but found it very helpful.  This is the final article in a series of 3 reports.  The final outcome was that her bitch next door had to move and maintain a 100 yard restraining order, including the parents of the bully that owned the home.  I think this will really set some precendence in cases like these.

What really upsets me the most is the sense of entitlement that people have.  How can anyone in their right mind (maybe that's the key point) think it's okay to treat people like this?  How can they justify purposefullly going out of their way to affect your life in such a negative way? 

I have come to realize that they must be truly miserable themselves to keep up the contant attack.  How exhausting it must be?

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the article.  I'll keep you posted on the return to court in the coming months.  Thanks for listening! ::)

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20080824-9999-1m24braun.html

Hello FinallyFree! [quote="Finallyfree"] I thought I would just die if I heard another police officer say, "just ignore them".

[/quote] Oh I hear ya! Am sick to my back teeth of that and 'rise above it'  >:(

I'm pleased your bitch next door moved mate and your situ's improved, that's fab!
And [quote="Finallyfree"]People like this will never stop...there is truely a mental defect[/quote] Oh yes and then some...takes a while to figure that though eh?
Welcome
Petxx

Welcome to the neighborhood, Finallyfree. Sounds like a crazy story there, but I have gotten pretty used to reading them here, this seems to be a good place for people to vent.

Glad to hear your bitch moved, even if you still have some association, less is more! The rest of us can only hope for such luck, most of us are still dealing with our respective beotches.

Thank you so much for this site.  I wish I would have found this a long time ago.  The stories you have shared back and forth sound exactly like our situation. 

There must be some personality disorder that makes the crazies think that they can "hide" out in the open.  Ours would pop up from behind the fence as if we all wouldn't notice.  ;D At least it was good for a laugh.  Humor in these situations is rare but definitely warranted at times.

We, along with another neighbor, were able to successfuly obtain a restraining order twice against our bitch next door.  Yes, I did say twice...each one was good for a year.  Unfortunately, it did little and the police refused to get involved. 

The restraining order is either going to be a deterrent or inflame the situtation. In our case, it was definitely the latter. We have endured stalking, slander, and just outright WIERD behavior.  Although our situation is long from being over it has at least improved.  They MOVED!!!!

Albeit, they still live in the neighborhood and come around all the time we finally have peace and quiet about 95% of the time.  I'm not saying this to brag.  We seriously didn't realize how much this had impacted our life until the day the moving van came.  We have celebrated every weekend with our neighbors since they have gone.  We literally feel like we got our get out of jail card.  It has taken a few months but I am no longer compelled to look out the window to see if it is safe to go outside.  Best of all, my daughter's nightmares about the "bad man" have stopped.

I feel for others in the same situation.  No one can possibly understand what it's like until you are forced to live like this by the crazy antics of a bitch next door.  I thought I would just die if I heard another police officer say, "just ignore them".

People like this will never stop...there is truely a mental defect.  No one "normal" keeps people under surveillance 24/7.

My advice to you... get a good security camera with DVR and keep a detailed log.  Go to court.  If you can show repeated evidence of harrassment and present your facts calmly in court you should do alright.  Chances are the judge will see what is happening.

Good luck to you... 

Ah ha, you've entered the final stage, acceptance. congratulations, and I'm sorry.

That being said, while I don't know the dynamics of both sides of your situation, depending on where your neighbor sits in terms of friends, community connections and the like, but, if you have built a life where you are, and your neighbor is in a position of being an outcast, it's quite likely that your neighbor feels the same.

On a side note, that really should not being a weighing factor for your decision, but is a valid point, is that giving in and leaving just feeds the narcissist with another "win" by bullying and intimidation. That ends up feeding the beast to do the same thing to the next people that move in.

Many narcissists get through life by bullying and intimidating people (or simply by people saying "fine, whatever" because they are sick of dealing with the person) and the more it succeeds for them, the more it empowers their self-entitlement. When somebody stands up to them it weirds them out and they end up in a manic state and doing something REALLY stupid.

So, it comes down to how much of an actual threat to safety it is...if you don't feel actually physically threatened, stand up and watch them flip out and possibly commit a crime or do something else insanely stupid and laughable and then things can turn.

On the flip side, if you do, for good reason, feel threatened, you should be able to obtain a restraining order, at the least for your kids.

I dunno, just random thoughts...

I've witnessed the manic personality of a couple people through life doing something stupid and ultimately embarrassing in a manic fit of rage, hell, I remember doing it myself as a temperamental kid, and it's very sad and quite comical all at the same time...very funny in some cases, like roll-on-the-floor-laughing funny and cry-in-your-beer sad for the people that have to deal with this more than you...like their families.

How about this:  what if you give the bitch exactly what she says she wants?  You quit the team she tried to get you kicked off of, you give up the friends she's been trying to persuade to her side, you give up fighting on every front.  You move.  You never speak of her to anyone, ever. 

Lately we've begun to feel this is our only option.  Nothing else is working.  We're discouraged, to say the least.

Tell you what, if you figure it out, tell me, if I do, I'll tell you :-)

That sounds about right.  There's no way to end this, is there?

...and then, if you "win" (like anyone truly does) be prepared for that person to be focused on you and only you for being the blame for every little thing that happens in their...because it certainly can't be their fault, because they have done nothing wrong...they are the victims...and you are the focus of all blame...and they will be virtually obsessed with getting you in trouble for anything...

It is also worth noting that if some of these incidents occur while they are in a manic state, and they say it never happened, or, leave out a huge chunk in the middle of the story, they may well believe that because they may well not have been "there" when it happened...which adds to the complexity...because in their mind it really didn't happen, they have no recollection...truly.

By filing the exact same lawsuit as a counter suit...with a lot of made up garbage accusing you of the same things you are accusing them of...but taking it up a notch and making your offenses seem just a little worse with sweeping, unsubstantiated claims.

How would you expect your typical narcissist to react to the threat of a lawsuit?  To the filing of a lawsuit? 

"and had a successful resolution"

...don't jump to that conclusion...no problem like this is ever resolved unless both parties want it to be and both parties can admit their wrongs...therein lies the problem most times...foolish pride.

In the words of Ron White "You can't fix stupid".

That being said, you are right, there is comfort in knowing you are not alone...

Let her rant and rage to people...odds are most folks know the source and she'll just keep making herself look crazier...

"I know you ended up in court, and it seems that ended the problem for you."

Oh, no, just rose things to a different level of weird.

Yes, I thought so too.  It's also funny because my husband mentioned several times that he wished he could put up a site about our bitch.  We cracked up when we found yours and saw the address.  It's been hugely comforting to us to hear someone else has gone through this and had a successful resolution.  The unpredictability of the situation is the hardest part.  Almost every day there's something new.  Someone told me yesterday that I should just hang in there because "she can't possibly be enjoying this either."  But I'm pretty sure she does.  Because before us, it was someone else. 

We vascillate between retreating completely and letting her say and do whatever she wants, and going at her with a full-frontal offense.  Right now we're hanging somewhere in the middle, more toward the "retreat" side (e.g., we're moving).  We don't intend to ever do anything illegal or nasty - neither of us has the stomach for that.  Right now we're trying to decide if it's more unsettling to her for us to ignore her recent rash of activity, or for us to make another move to let her know we're not taking it lying down (again, it's hard to be more specific - suffice to say our actions have been above-board and wouldn't bother anyone's conscience).

I know you ended up in court, and it seems that ended the problem for you.  Had it not gone that way, am I correct in assuming you would have just continued to ignore her?

there is a lot of overlap in disorders...one or two things with differenciate between them, and people can quite possibly have more than one.

man our stories sound similar on some levels...

I read about the other disorders you mentioned.  There seems to be a lot of overlap with them.  Based on my extensive Wikipedia education, I can conclusively say that ... I dunno.  She strongly exhibits a sense of entitlement, self-importance, an obsession with appearances and a need to be admired and in control.  She needs to be the center of attention.  We believe what set her off with us was a fairly minor (we thought) situation where we inadvertently suggested her children had misbehaved (in a very normal way - we weren't upset about it, just mentioning it because it was relevant to another situation being discussed).  There was a confrontation where she completely lost her marbles, after which we didn't speak to or about her for over a year.  She occasionally took shots at us, or did petty things to annoy us.  We ignored it all and assumed things would eventually blow over.  We were baffled to discover almost 2 years later that her anger with us had actually escalated into a white-hot fury, despite the fact that we'd had no meaningful contact with her at all.  Her behavior now is alarming.  It's hard to explain everything while still being discreet, but I think this captures it.  It's hard for me to gauge how effective her interpersonal relationships are -- she does have at least a few people who believe her and support her.  I think she is functional and capable of coming across as sane.  Which is the scariest part of all.

Yeah, I actually found the research into mental illnesses quite interesting personally, and I have an old friend that is a psychotherapist with a masters degree in this sort of thing, so he was interesting to talk to over beers one night...

As I understand it, narcissists typically really turn people off quickly do to their self-indulgent manner (though admittedly it's hard keeping all the info straight in my head, I may be thinking of another disorder). With that said, I'd suspect on the whole they'd have a hard time manipulating anyone since they are rarely liked. You may well be dealing with a Borderline or Histrionic P.D.

As far as moving, I don't see how anyone could say that's a bad idea if you have someone hassling your kids...those people are friggin idiots...priority #1 is protecting the children...if the children are being hassled, well...

It's interesting you should mention the amateur psychoanalysis route, as that has been one of our favorite ways to pass the time lately.  We were friendly for quite a while before things went to DEFCON 2.  Or maybe it's DEFCON 4 - I always forget which way is more severe.  In either event, I've read through your mental illness section and found it informative.  I'm leaning towards narcisissm.  Your section on Dealing With A Narcisisst Neighbor sounded very much like like our situation and our bitch.  I was comforted that you said moving may be the best option in such a situation.  Several people have told us moving was a bad choice, but they don't live next door to the bitch.  Still, I keep double-guessing myself. 

One thing I didn't see discussed - the use of other people to do the narcisisst's dirty work.  I've been stunned at our bitch's manipulation of others, and how successful she's been in getting them to spread gossip and do other things for her.  I don't want to get too specific here for obvious reasons, but the bottom line is she seems to have a certain charisma or something that makes her more formidable than your average bitch. 

Ya know, it should be noted that many people that have some sort of personality disorder do appear sane the bulk of the time and live relatively normal (though dramatic) lives. Much of the time they enter manic states with some sort of trigger...something sets it off.

First things first, do some research, if you honestly think she has some sort of disorder, and you have enough experience dealing with her, look into the different disorders and see which one fits. Most are 90% the same stuff, basic personality disorder stuff, but each one has one or two unique traits that you could likely identify with.

Is she always mean or just at times? Did you get to know anything about her before things went bad? Have you seen a pattern of manic/normal states by stimuli, or life situation? Is she overly arrogant or overly self hating? Stuff like that can possibly lead you to figuring an admittedly unprofessional, but useful diagnosis and thereby possibly some tactics regarding how to deal...

I feel for ya, man, I really do, believe me!

That being said, I never said karma works fast, but it works...usually. Some people can't be dealt with and won't tolerate being ignored, it's a tough catch 22 to be in, no doubt...as I am well aware.

Sane people recognize insane people, if you see her as nuts, odds are you are not alone, but, if she hasn't given others around as much personal hassle as you, they won't want to ruffle feathers or get involved, that doesn't mean they don't see what you see, it just means they are acting in their own best interest.

I wish I had some magic words of wisdom, but, as fate has it, sometimes life just sucks, and sometimes people just suck and you just need to watch your own back.

Moving is a big step, but if you have to, you have to, it sucks.

I keep telling myself that karma will deal with it, that someone this nasty can't possibly get through life without some kind of consequence to her behavior.  But as time goes on, I'm having a harder time convincing myself.  I wonder if sometimes the bad guys win.  It's hard to fight someone who's willing to say and do anything.  And our "bitch next door" is devious and manipulative.  She appears sane.  We ignored her for a long time, hoping she'd get bored.  Instead, she's accused us of vandalism, abuse and harassment.  She's tried to have us fired from our jobs, kicked off a sports team, shunned in the community and arrested.  And she's had some success. 

Right now I'd say the score is: Bitch Next Door 5, Stupid Saps 0.

For a while I was baffled as to why someone would act this way.  Now I'm just stunned that someone can get away with it.

Sometimes I feel like I'm in a Kafka novel.

Thanks for you comments, as much as I hate hearing situations like this, it's good to know we're not alone.

I would suggest taking the high road, only tell those you need to in order to protect yourself and your family. Typically karma does a pretty good job of weeding out the truth all by itself. If you want to vent, do it to people that don't know both parties to just vent.

Then, to blow steam, sign up for a good kickboxing class. :-)